Just to get an idea how much you all love BAL, and if there's any one thing we can improve to increase that %, then let us know.

I only use bal thanks to Paul Cronin. If the price came down a bit it would be great tho cheers.

Come on guys. Lets us know how much BAL you use, and how we can improve that figure. Is it due to lack of range, availability, usability, or price.

I'm glad you asked. The price is a big thng here with bal. Now I usually tell the customer that I won't gaurantee my work unless it's bal I use but the price seems to upset people a bit.

My issue is availability - I can source it locally from an excellent supplier but the tile shops that actually push work my way haven't got a deal with BAL to sell the product. I like to support those who support me so find myself only using BAL on specific projects where a specilaist product (like fastflex, tanking system, PTB with large format) is required. Much prefer BAL to my daily choice and don't have an issue with the price level for what it is, just need to look after the man who looks after me.

Andrew

up here price is a major issue, if i go to topps and get bal gear i pay at least doule what i would pay for dunlop which is made by bal

a friend recently rang topps and was quoted nearly 80 quid retail for bal fast flex for 1 bag

i know bal is great gear but surely in the current economic climate bal along with Mapei, pci, norcross etc could reduce their prices to help kickstart the tiling industry, if even for a limited time

i use dunlop set fast plus and dunlop large format tile adhesive as well as the 2 tubbed brands dunlop produce, i used to use pci gear for all my powdered usage and felt it was a little dry, dunlop set fast plus has never failed me and i get on average 7m2 a bag with this stuff

there are people up here quoting rices from as little as 15 per m2 plus materials, if that same person used dunlop with a 10 year guarantee against someone with the same labour rate using bal products who would the average punter choose, the cheapest simply because he wants a nice house but due to economics has no choice but to keep the price down

i can see no justification for the really high prices, true you get wat you pay for, if thats the case why did bal introduce the dunlop brand, surely not for the poor people or for the lower end of the scale, i pride myself on my work and guarantee everything i do, i have never had a call back or a failure using dunlop goods so can someone from bal please advise me why their pricing policy is so expensive when they offer a so called lesser quality branded product from the same factory, is it greed to have a share of 2 pies, i for one would raher have a larger share of the one pie


sorry for the rant

andy

Different distributors charge differing amounts for products and this is no different for BAL – like others, we cannot control any distributor prices.

In terms of BAL and Dunlop though there are many differences like there are between BAL and many other brands.

BAL is a premium product which many in the industry feel is the best. This is because people can trust BAL for its product and brand qualities. Every formulation is of the highest standard focused on differing technical needs of tiling and formulated to withstand the most demanding tiling situations. The support offered is also market leading such as the PST’s on site and on hand to help, contract and specification support, our TAS team providing back up on the phones, training, free services such as Quote Builder tools and Tilerworld etc etc and not least the BAL 25 year guarantee!


Dunlop branded products are targeted at a different user group. The Dunlop brand is known by most people in the street and that's why it's predominately found within independent retailers and builders merchants. Whilst Dunlop products are good quality, the breadth of product range is tight and the formulations are not designed purely for professionals like BAL. Although made by the same company the formulations are created so that products can be used for a variety of common applications (rather than more technical applications you get with BAL). As Dunlop is also formulated to do more simple jobs it doesn’t have the technical back-up of BAL with for example no PST or TAS support and currently no guarantee is offered...

Most companies do have multiple brands that target different users and sectors, but you will find that the components (formulation) involved are different and the support/services offered for each are different ….think Audi / VW / Skoda

Distributor prices can be avoided all together, simply supplier direct to us, you still make your price and we use your product more as the price becomes more realistic.
I use BAL a lot but not as much as I would want too, as each customer has a different budget.

Part of any price/value proposition is distribution, availability and added value services. Our policy is to make our product available to the widest range of professional tile fixers possible at the best overall package rates. We at BAL have over 600 product lines, most of which are carried as stock by our distribution partners. If we were to try and emulate this availability of product to the tile fixer direct the price you would pay would undoubtedly be greater than it currently is

I believe Distributors fill a very important need in the market by providing a number of services. In addition to the obvious one of bulk breaking (able to supply you 1 tub as cheaply as 10), they are also able to give you advice on product selection, provide other products, credit accounts etc etc... One of the most important things that distirbutors do is set the premise of a retail price vs your trade price. This is particularly important for you when you need to justify your price. If price of materials is the bone of contention try asking your customer to source their own materials from B&Q , Wickes, Tile Giant etc and they will quickly see that you offer great value

I have heard of fixers boasting of a £50 saving on material delivered direct by a manufacturer only to then say that they had to wait in all day for the delivery... distributors have the stock when you need it

We are working hard to be able to provide value to tilers in a very difficult market and are grateful to our loyal customers for all you/they do in explaining the value of using quality material to the consumer.

However we don't have all the answers and a major benefit of this forum is to get feedback from tilers. The forum is read and used by our distributors who are also working hard at providing best value and many are offering great deals at the moment.

With regard to not being able to use BAL on every job, I would urge you and others to try using the Quotebuilder tool in powerspec (www.powerspeconline.com) to see how you can re-quote for jobs that are on a tight budget whilst still using BAL products. When you specify a tile, background and service conditions you will have a dropdown box for grout and adhesive that has a number of choices. The top product is ideal for the application (not neccessarily the most expensive!) but there are other products that you can choose from. When you log onto quotebuilder you should go to your price list and enter a -%/ pick a product that you know the price you pay and through trial and error you should be able to arrive at percentage you want to discount the retail prices by. You can then try the same job with a variety of products to arrive at the target price you need to win the job

When doing this it is important to remember what saving 20% on adhesive actually means to your final price. If we made some general assumptions about tiling a bathroom wall. Lets say there are 10 mtrs of tiling to complete and you are charging £25/mtr. The material for this project would cost approximately £30 (3kgs per metre and £1.00 per kg). Saving 20% on materials would be a £6.00 saving on the job or a £0.60/metre saving. You may dispute the numbers but make the calculations yourself.

As I said we are very grateful for all of your feedback and comments and we will look to make improvements whether that is in the products or service we supply or the value those elements give

I always try to use BAL, infact I would go further and say that I always try to use White Star on walls. Yes there is the cost, the biggest cost on any job is the labour. If I'm using some cheapo B&Q stuff with no grab, the job takes twice as long to get right. You pay your money, you make your choice.

If you guys really want to sell more of your stuff, help us tilers get more work. Most of us are sole traders so it is hard to promote your business in a cost effective way. This website is a great start, now lets see a national advertising campaign, so that consumers know where to come and who to use when they want a job doing.

Good feedback as usual!

We have lots of plans for promoting Tilerworld in the pipeline or rolling out! Although for obvious reasons we cannot always talk about our plans too early, be assured that this year we aim to make Tilerworld the place consumers come first to get a professional tiler!

I try as far as is poss use bal, as i was what i call brought up on this during my training/time served apprentership, but only on rare occassions use other products i.e, dunlop/profix when i have a budget that must be kept too, unless i can offer a discount due to a trade offer at my supplier, which as of late have been quite good.

I use BAL mainly thanks to Gaz. When I started out, he was at Topps in Preston and his guidance was invaluable. (never have bought you a pint have I?!)

Nowadays I do a fair bit as one of Topps "approved" (ha!) fitters, so that always means BAL gear.

For my own private jobs I specify and sell BAL wherever possible. The 25yr guarantee is a brilliant sales aid, not only for BAL but also for me. I stress that the 25yr guarantee is only applicable IF the job is done correctly, and then that leads to a brief discussion on correct methods Vs incorrect methods.

More recently though I have had to use a fair bit of white Keraquick with my larger flooring jobs where cost has been an issue. I can get white kerasick at £14 /20kg.

I hate the tempramental consistancy issues with Mapei. You can mix 10 batches and you're lucky if you get two the right consistancy 1st time!

I use BAL around 75-80% of the time.

This post has been edited by Grace's Dad: Apr 29 2009, 09:00 PM

I used to use Bal 90% of the time but my local doesnt stock it now. They tell me it was because they werent ordering enough of it from Bal to keep them sweet.

Shame because my only other supplier is Topps which are ok but very expensive in comparison.

Would be great if Bal could get into somewhere like B&Q. This would surely drive down price and make life so much easier.

We can only hope !

I presume that you were buying from A & C Dunkley in Bournemouth. I am sure that if you went into Topps in Poole or Christchurch and told them what price you were buying BAL at, they will be able to sort you out a good price. I know they are keen to attract a much trade business as they can... it's worth a try!... let me know how you get on

I try to use Bal as often as possible, it's just peace of mind knowing the product your using is the dogs danglies. I sometimes use Topfix which is pretty good and well priced too. I Also use BenferFlex a lot but it all depends on budget.

Bal does seem to be considerably more expensive than anything else on the market but saying that nothing else on the market is in Bal's league.

It would be bloody lovely if the people at Topps shops would listen to a word you say, everytime i buy Bal from Topps i haggle on the price telling them that Pentagon Tiles or Tile and stone gallery in Harlow are far cheaper thay just give me a look as if to say "yeah yeah heard it all before" (much to my disapointment because now i have to get angry with them lol)

So let me just say this to any Topps staff or hopefully management that might just be reading this. The next time a professional tiler enters your shop asking for an extra discount on Bal and you pull the normal "heard it a thousand times" face just stop and ask yourself that maybe you have heard for a thousand times BECAUSE IT'S TRUE YOU MUGS!!!!

OK I'M calm now


TJ

TJ, I will make sure that your comments get to the right people

Thanks Paul

TJ

just alter that price

BAL and Dunlop are leagues apart. It's very similar to say using Dulux Trade and Glidden Trade paint. They are both made by the same manufacturer but the difference is immense.

I tend to try nd stick to BAL as there is nothing better on the market.