Gotta agree with that

TJ

Last week i used PROFIX rapid set flexible which is also made by BAL it cost £9.36 for 20kg, was pretty good to use, went off a little fast but once it went off it really went off!!!

I'm not sure if you can get it where you are but the tile & stone gallery in harlow are doing it mate, i know it's not on your doorstep but Hitchin aint too far from harlow. Give it a go at that price you cant go wrong especially being made by BAL.

TJ

And get rid of PST's, Tilerworld, Tilerworld forum, free training days etc........?

Nope, But We all haggle for stuff mate inc PST's, tilerworld forum members etc, so no harm in asking

TJ

I'm inclined not to haggle, especially when it comes to other peoples money. I submit a quote which details how much it will cost the client if they want me to undertake the works, how much their materials will cost to fix their tiles, in their home. I am very reluctant to haggle on my costs (as my mortgage provider, Tesco, EON, Thames Water and the rest are kind of stubborn when it comes to haggling with me ) and I certainly can't haggle on materials. If they want me to use quality products to fix their quality tiles, in general they appreciate that it will cost money. Not all clients will pay for quality materials, but on average, 2:3 of the people I meet will.

Andrew

It is important to remember that Profix is NOT BAL. BAL is the market-leading brand for adhesives & grouts in the UK. It is so because for the BAL branded range we source the best materials to ensure the best quality products in the market. We have rigorous testing procedures to ensure this is maintained (testing every batch - which at the amount we sell is a hell of a lot!) and we have a market-leading R&D team to ensure that we are ahead of the market, with product innovations that will meet a market need, as it occurs. Many of these come to market (Acoustibond, Supercover, Green Screed etc) and many don't, but we are always investigating future options. Combine this with the services we offer in terms of initiatives like Tilerworld, TAS, PST'S, training, promotional material / literature etc ....25 year guarentee... and this is the BAL package you are paying for.

Profix is a range of 10 products that are made by Building Adhesives Ltd (the company). The formulations are different, the raw materials are different (hence the noticible difference when used) ...just like when VW Group sell Skodas instead of an Audi, Lamborghini or Bentley! It is a limited range at the very lowest price for a sector of the market where only price matters. To pass this low cost on it cannot include any literature, web support, sales, PST, technical / training support, no guarantees, no innovation / R&D investment etc etc....

Profix is what it is and for some people it will be what is required. For others it will not, but don't be confused by the throw away comment 'it is BAL' because as you can see for yourselves, it simply isn't!

Cheers,
Alex

Thanks Alex but i think i better clear up that i never did say this stuff is BAL, i'm well aware that PROFIX just because it is made by BAL does not mean it is the proper BAL adhesive, however BAL is such a respected brand that simply by putting their name next to something must mean that it will hit a certain standard (in other words i would rather use BAL' S cheap stuff than most other brands on the market if the job i was on had to be tight due to budget)

It was meant as a compliment to BAL as a company and was not a suggestion as a replacement, i use BAL on 9 out of 10 jobs regardless of costs, but if i'm doing a tiny floor in a downstairs loo then BAL'S cheap stuff is probably very appropriate.


Andrew, i appreciate your post mate and it makes a lot of sense, I am also aware that it had no bad feeling toward me and was a general reply to the topic at hand. Although i just want to be clear, i was not talking about haggling with the customer or them haggling with me on the rate i charge them (i too will not get into discussions with customers about lowering my price) i charge them according to the job and that always includes what i put on for using BAL. i also charge a certain rate which includes the price for using the best materials available, Tattman originally said "Just alter tht price" to which i agreed with him (I ment it slightly tongue in cheek). if i buy a TV from a store i ask for a discount, If i'm buying a new home i put an offer in of a lower price, so if when it comes to buy a bag of BAL i ask the retailer if they can do any better on it. So when someone asks on here to alter the price a little i'm gonna agree with them, i know full well that BAL is well worth every penny it costs.

If BAL were to suddenly put the prices up i would still happily pay for it because the overall package that comes with it is second to none, the PST's, this website, the 25 year guarentee, GAZ lol!! but if they suddenly lowered the price without altering the quality they deliver then this would obviosly be better (but again that doesn't mean i think it should be cheaper) although i would always try to pay cheaper if i could


Just because i would try to get it cheaper does not in ANY way mean that i don't think it's worth what it costs.

Hope that has cleared a few things up without upsetting anyone

TJ

This post has been edited by TJ Smiler: Jun 10 2009, 11:44 AM

TJ ...No worries, I didn't realise I had come on so strong (must be the passion!). I appreciate your sentiment that cheap Building Adhesives product may be better than another manufacturers cheap product but at the same time this is nowhere near the BAL product and service offering and I think sometimes it can be an easy sell for people to perpetuate the myth that 'its BAL in a different bucket'.

It important to us that fixers understand that both the actual BAL products and the service offerings are very different on BAL than any others and this is the value in the brand that fixers can really on ...for another 40+ years!

Cheers,
Alex

Alex, thanks again for that but you had nothing to worry about, i'm not that sensitive ........ I didn't think your post was strong mate and i'm aware that i'm probably not the best writer on here, so it could be easy to miss read my tone also. I did think that some were maybe getting the wrong end of the stick so just wanted to be clearer (and i'm hoping that after four thousand edits, i have managed to achieve it )

I have no shame in saying that this websit, BAL products, all you PST's and the service you provide is brilliant, so on the flip side of that i didn't want you guys to think i was being a big hairy butt hole.

Cheers mate

TJ

i use bal 100% bx the best adhesive in the market

Was at the 75-99% mark when i first voted on this but am now upto 100% myself.... Your right mate nothing touches it


tj

Thanks TJ

MY GOD!!!!

I've never seen such sucking up!!!!

TJ what the hell has happend to u!!

Yea Bal products are good... yea their technical team know their stuff, but i personally think the gear is well over priced.

Yea if customers wanna pay top dough for me to price bags of Bal into their quote then thats a touch but if i priced for using that on every quote i recon i'd lose half.

There are still good products out there that can do jobs to a good standard at half the price of Bal.

Yes Bal is a top name , yes Bal is a quality product , yes Bal does have some of the sexiest damn techincal staff i've ever met (GAZ), but please please please review the bloody prices........ oh and don't blame everything on efflorescence.

Would you like to explain that last comment Wivers please ?

Well i've had loads of problems with charocal grout patching in the past...every time i do its blamed on efflorescence...its cost me time and money to sort out via aqua mix etc. Why can't the simple explination ever be that there is a problem with Bal charcoal grout.

The last thing we want on this site is sucking up.
If that is all we get, we'll gain nothing from it. And so far, if you read more of the threads you;d probably agree, we are (as a company) gaining some great, honest feedback from the guys on here.

As for price, with BAL you and your customer are paying for more than an adhesive or grout.

You are paying for all of those sexy PST's.
You are paying for all of the support that the ASM's and RSM's give architects, distributors, contractors and the rest.
You are paying for the full NBS M40 specifications and expert advice on the end of a phone from TAS
You are paying for all the training courses we have throughout the country
You are paying for continual innovative product development from our R&D dept.
You are paying for the convenience of a fantastic Distributor network throughout the country.
You are paying to be able to come onto a website from 9am to 11pm on weekdays and 10am to 10pm at weekends to get advice from guys who are accountable for that advice they give.
And not least, you are paying for a 25yr gaurantee that will be followed up on. And followed up quickly.

When you take all of that into account, for the sake of a couple of £ per mtr, or £40-50 on an average job, I would say that BAL is value for money compared to those other products you talk of.

Wivers. If charcoal grout is to blame, then why doesn't every bag of charcoal have problems? We sell a lot of it.
Guess what. Its been over a month since I've been on a charcoal grout complaint. I know we're still selling it, so why am I not still visiting complaints with patchy grout?

Nice post by the way Jamesie.

I think we better end this thread here and talk privately because this has really f***ing pissed me off. You must be pissed up

This post has been edited by TJ Smiler: Aug 1 2009, 06:43 AM

I think we can handle Wivers TJ.
He's only jealous because the nasty adhesive he uses give's him no one to talk too.

Ouch Danny, that hurt deep. Oh well.